Job Story: Audio Engineer...love the sound, hate the sexism

[Lori]

Nice to hear I am not the only one who has gone through this in the field of audio! I would like to share with you some of my experiences as a woman trying to get a foot in the door of the recording/audio industry.<br />
I went to a music school and recieved my AAS degree in music production, with a focus on audio engineering. I worked very hard while in school and scored what I thought was a killer internship at a really good, high end studio that was associated with my school. It took me a very long time to figure out that being female was actually an issue in this industry. I did not want to believe it. The people I worked with never came out with any overtly rude remarks about my gender- they were too "professional" for that - they just kept me answering phones, cleaning the lounge and making coffee for 2 years (with no pay, by the way).<br />
My then boyfriend (now husband) got an internship here through my suggestion, and they had him working on gear on his 2nd day! And I had been there for a year and a half! Within 2 weeks he was actually assisting on a session for a famous major label recording artist when their regular assistant was ill. He did not have to ask them for these opportunities..they gave them freely.<br />
"Hey" I thought " I know he's a smart guy, but I'm smart, too - and I've been here for a long time!" <br />
I kept beating on myself for the longest time about "maybe I need to just insist that they let me get in the studio" but I was afraid that if I criticized them at all or made mention of my deisre to do more in their studio and my frustration with the situation, that they would just kick me out completely.<br />
For the longest time I thought they were such wonderful people, and that it was my fault that they casually excluded me from their precious inner circle. I thought "I must appear to be dumb or have no confidence" or "maybe they can see through me and they don't think I have any potential!".... and this REALLY tore me up inside for a long time...but when the elder head engineer who rarely spoke to me, unless it was to ask me for coffee, told me one day "I think you'd make a great fashion designer" It dawned on me that they were really never going to give me a shot to even show them what I could do. Since they had never shown any real interest in learning what my abilities were from day one, they had no idea what my skill level was and could not base any judgements about me on that.. I finally came to the conclusion that it had to have something to do with the fact that I am female. When I really opened my eyes and noticed that the owners had allowed the main assistant to tape half naked pictures of Britney Spears to the SSL, and that the main scheduling computer was full of porn site bookmarks, I realised I was not on a level playing field. At that point, I was so downhearted and unsure of myself anyway that I probably would have been shaking had they actually asked me to do something of importance (other than tear down after a session!)<br />
The real kicker was when we had a very high profile engineer come in for a session ( I won't say his name, but if you look on any Jimi Hendrix or Led Zeppelin album you will see him listed as the engineer) and when I asked him if he would like me to begin setting up the mic's for the session, he said "No, love, you can be in charge of the coffee"!!! <br />
it's been a couple of years, and I have since realised that recording is not for me. It's not my heart's first desire, and therefore I am just not ready to make the sacrafices for it. I have since concentrated on making music. <br />
My main point in all of this is to rant and bitch :) and to give one piece of advice for anyone thinking about getting into recording: <br />
Like anything else, with perserverence you will find success..but before committing thousands of financial aid dollars to a school for it, make sure it is something you are really truly in love with and still love doing even when you are working for free or next to nothing, or going through the times when it all looks rotten and bleak and you can't even find a free gig to do! My husband and I moved to NYC after we finished school and have been doing freelance work as sound designers for indie films. In our experience, when we can get a gig, the pay is either very low or we are working for free just to get additional experience and to meet new people and make new connections. There is a LOT of competition out there at a time when many schools are adding audio recording and production to their schools programs -cranking out the audio graduates. Plus the easy access to digital audio equipment for the average consumer. It's not the same as it was in the analog days...there are a lot more of us out there looking for a big break. <br />
For most people there will be times when you will be broke, starving and recording shitty local bands who can't come up with the money they owe you...or worse, you may be expected to work for free for a long time with promises of a paying job down the road that never materializes. Just make sure it's what you love, and you will find the strength to get through! A good idea may be to look for an internship at a studio where you can get a feel for what it's like before going to school...and then you may find you can learn everything you need to without an audio school! <br />
best of luck to all the strong audio women out there! You rule!

[Dustin bowe]

are you hot?<br />

[Alex alex@inkswitch.com]

For anyone considering a job in sound reinforcement...
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<br>
I was a sound engineer for six years, worked mostly for college bands at Auburn University and in Austin, Texas between 1986 and 1992, but also did bigger shows and a lot of touring (drive drive, schlep, drive drive). I worked with everyone from Mojo Nixon to Alien Sex Fiend, The Romantics to Chris & Cosey. It was a blast.
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If you're out there studying to become a sound engineer, don't bother. I learned everything I ever needed on the job. I started out by buying my own small PA and renting it out to local clubs and bands, played with all the gadgets, read all the magazines and got pretty good at it.
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All you need is a good ear, a technical mind, a strong back (for carrying gear around) and a strong stomach (for drinking and road food). Oh, and it doesn't hurt to have a good left hook for when the singer gets out of control or some drunken jerk tries to pour beer on your console.
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I left after six years because all the sound engineers in the live music industry that I ever met were burned out by the time they hit 30. Live sound is great, but get into a studio as quickly as possible. There's much more interesting work to do on multi-media, video games, television, movies, music and voice recording and so forth.
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For the women, I have to admit I've never met a woman sound engineer, though I agree with the other guy who said that women have better sense of hearing (and probably better sense in general, which is important when you're responsible for tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of music gear.
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Live sound is a dirty business, musicians are a dirty bunch. If you want to spend your time slogging around in all of that, I wish you the best of luck. Bring a can of mace and wear steel-toe boots.
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I'd be happy to offer more advice if anyone wants it. It'd be great to think back on the day.
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My best pieces of advice... use your input gain wisely, subgroup your instruments effectively, play the effects and signal processors like they're your instrument and if it sounds good in the bathroom, it's probably good everywhere.
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alex
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alex@inkswitch.com

[Xine Queen_Darkmane@hotmail.com]

Thank you so much for the inspiration!! I have been contemplating going to school for Audio Engineering. Here's another bound-and-determined-female-entering-yet-another-male-dominant-industry!!!!

[Jessica hernandezjessica@hotmail.com]

Whoa I loved this article thing. I'm an engineer and I tried assisting some shows at South by Southwest, here in Austin, TX and I actually got some gigs, and at one I was literally shoved out of the way by the guy who wanted to do it instead. I am attending The Conservatory of Recording Arts and Sciences in June but I already have experience. If anyone out there could give me some pointers on finding tours to go on could you please contact me? Hell, all of you that are in the business already contact me too, haha. Thanks!
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hernandezjessica@hotmail.com
<br />
Jessica

If you are good at what you do,then no one can take that away from you, and if whoever dosen't like it or can't deal with it.-Tough,and whatever.
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If you bother with every crappy,bitter,jealous,petty person who comes along,you'll never get anywhere.
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So egnore any crap or b.s you get,...and just get on with it.

[talia cook seng22006@student.sit.ac.nz]

It's really great to get in contact with you! If it's not too much trouble maybe you could answer a few questions of mine for a research assignment. (you can be brief, I dont want to make you write a full biography)
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1. Where did you gain your experience for the music industry?
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2. What would you consider your main resposibilities/profession? Whether you be a producer, manager, or sound engineer etc?
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3. If there is any other field that would interest you to further your developments in the industry, what are they and how do you think you would go about moving into that field?
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4. Do you feel that gender is a major issue in the music industry? Why or why not?
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5. What can women exclusively offer in the way of skills and knowledge in the industry? Is there a need for more females in the profession which you do?
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6. What do you think a female could not offer in the way of skills and knowledge in the industry?
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This would be more than helpful!!!! Thankyou for your time...
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AROHA NUI!
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Talia
<br />
Diploma in Sound Engineering, Year Two
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Southern Institute of Technology
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[gobogeek gobogeek@yahoo.com]

hi amy!
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<br />
i am a girl working as a light techie and i know what you´re talking about..
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just don´t care about stupid people talking sh**.. because they are just STUPID people talking sh**
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;-)
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they will not get far anyway..
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just keep on doing your job..
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<br />
greetings from vienna/austria,
<br />
gobogeek

[Adam adammiml27@hotmail.com]

Hey Amy,
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I would love to have a chat with you about your job... Im just about to start a course in Sydney Australia. Its an Audio engineer degree... Your story has put a bit of a negative on my path.... How can i reach you.. Maybe your e-mail address or can you write to mine...... Thanx Aussie adam

[Mike]

Amy,
<br />
What an adventure! The way you describe your passion for mixing live sound is inspiring. It sucks that you have the petty obstacle of sexism. I mix sound for my band (I perform as well; please don't shoot me). I have a lot to learn, but the gadgets are fun to figure out and we have our sound pretty well under control. I've always been fascinated with the sound and lighting equipment at concerts.
<br />
With the amount of experience you have, shouldn't you consider putting together a business plan and starting your own sound company? Find your place in the industry and bully your way in with competitive pricing if you have to. I've heard some really awful, unprofeshional shit at concerts that leads me to believe the industry needs people that give a shit. You may need to think outside of the box you see yourself confined to. And ladies, if any man shoves you off the mixing console, stab him in the ass with your soldering iron.

[djsullivan dswpro@hotmail.com]

I was a live sound guy for a number of years. When I got out of high school, live music concert sound was all I really wanted to do, or recording. I found the industry filled with lots of people wanting to be close to famous people. So many people think running sound is exciting. It's lot's of hard work. Lifting, lugging, stringing cables, wrapping up beer-soaked snakes. Long hours and little pay. I went back to school to study software. Now I use my love for music in my job. I run winamp and write code. If I'm lucky, I get a job writing some cool software. Face it, it pays a lot better than mixing, and is almost as exciting. I wish I could tell you things will get better. They won't unless you make them. Choose an industry where there is infinite demand chasing limited producs. For me, that's software.

[Elisa rayna_71@hotmail.com]

I totally agree with you. I'm 17 and I'm looking towards attending a recording program next year. Every guy I know has told me to forget about it because I won't get work. First of all I'm probably one of the best musicians out of my guy friends and I have taken jobs before and was put down because I'm a girl. I think that's complete and utter bullshit. In order to survive in this industry you have to be tough and realize that your opinion doesn't really matter. Interning at a couple studio's I did get the sexist remarks like "sweetie" but I learned to deal with it. This is something I love and probably a lot of other girls love too. I just think this is something you have to stick with. Also I know for a fact that anything a guy can do I can do a hundred times better.

Amy,
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This is coming from a guy.
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I laughed at the stupitidy inherent in the sexist comments you quoted. I can't figure out why they don't spend more time flirting with you than insulting you. Not that wouldn't have the potential for some drawbacks as well, but I suppose it would be an improvement.
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Men who say the kind of idiotic and sexist things that are said to you are an embarrassment to the gender.

[Helen Kathrynwiddop@aol.com]

Hi,
<br>
I am so glad I have finally had acess to read your piece about being a sound engineer. Finding info and how to go about becoming on is hard. I'm 17 and I went to college to study media but shortly left, but I was really keen on the audio side and thats when I decided I wanted to become a sound engineer, but how to go about it I have not got a clue but after reading about your life as one and what it entails I now feel more positive and will continue to find more info and hopefully suceed, Thanks

[tigi]

hey amy
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<br>
i think we have met each other, via the internet at least!
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i enjoyed reading your piece, and identified with a hell of a lot of it, though was saddened by your comments on the sexism prevalent in the job. i know it exists, having just lost a gig this month cos they "didnt want a girl on the bus" (first time ive heard it ACTUALLY said, though even so it was 3rd hand), but it also exists in a lot of other jobs too, and shouldnt be taken out of context: guys for the most part feel threatened and/or intimidated by women in ANY position of power, we can choose not to see it if we want to, but a glance at the world around you will prove that. look at the magazines; fashion; in fact the general state of our western, patriarchal society!! we actively encourage women to be not a whole lot more than useless, pretty adornments-no wonder then that guys feel this way about us, they have been trained this way their whole lives and dont know any better unless they actively question it!!!
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if we dont fit the sterotype that is being thrust down their throats everyday, then of course we are scary to them.
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unfortunately the touring/audio business is a male dominated one, and will probably continue to be so. all i can say is that there are people out there who will hire, and even actively want to hire women, and crews that will work with women too. it just takes more effort to find them, and yes, we have to work harder and this takes its toll in the form of getting burnt out sooner. but on another note, i have managed to be more successful than a lot of my peers (guys) who are also still struggling to get that "dream gig" or seek recognition, so it does pay off if you dont get burnt out first!
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i just wanted to add that to your comments to give hope to any aspiring women out there.
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yes, there is sexism out there, but dont let it get you down or keep you from doing a great job-whatever that job is.
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one last note though- i have yet to be hired by a female band/crew. ha ha.
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big respect and thanks to all the guys who have "given me a chance". you know who you all are.
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;-)
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all the best.
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tigi
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to any guys in the industry reading this:
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1. i dont want to fuck you
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2. i dont want to fuck any of the band or crew
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3. you can tell your wives/girlfriends that
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4. i dont care who you fuck
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5. i dont care who any of the band/crew fuck
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6. i wont tell your wife/girlfriend THAT
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7. i dont need any more privacy on the bus than you do
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8. i wont cry if i cant get a shower everyday
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9. i wont cry if there is no mirror on the bus
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10. i wont turn into an evil bitch when i get my period (thats YOUR girlfriend) and yes i can still do my job and you probably wouldnt even know
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11. i have seen dicks before
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12. i know what groupies are there for (duh)
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13. i have seen/heard about EVERY sexual act performed in the dressing room/back lounge
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14. i have seen/heard EVERYTHING you think a woman shouldnt know about "the boys club"
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15. i am and can be "one of the boys"
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16. i like guys
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17. i can do my job well (and i will probably beat you at pinball)
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18. i am a HUMAN BEING.
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19. ___________________________ (please add here any of the other things that would stop you hiring a woman)
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[Woo ahhh... you know that (small world)]

Hiya Amy:
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<br>
Read your article... read the comments... I don't have much to add... since I'm not into live sound... but still reveling in the fact that I finally turned around and asked one of "the guy's"..."do you know EVERYTHING?"... shocked, I told him to get out of my session... my sessions are the only onse he decides that he wants to unrack and fiddle around with pieces of gear while I'm in the middle of the session... not to turn this into man bashing... but so many are egotistical assholes who think they're God's gift to Audio... and have no idea how to work with a client... which is why I'm requested as engineer on more sessions than my "Know it all" counterpart... despite him having more experience... doesn't have anything to do with sexism "Chet"... it's the plain truth... you have your good guys(and I work with those too)... but there's always an asshole in the pile...

[Paul Young Headlevel@talk21.com]

Just leaving Uni, Audio and visual HND.
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<br>
I am male but I can see where you are coming from. I have been studying for 4 years towards this HND and in that time there have been three females on the course out of 44 students. The thing is females take a lot more pride in there work and to tell you the truth know a lot more than the average ego male. Keep on going don't give up and if you want a male willing to be on level terms with you, you have my E-mail address.

[Ben Ortega Preciseproductions@engineer.com]

It is true that sound is a male dominated feild but as long as you kick ass and do a great job noone is going to give a shit. If they do they are probably just intimidated that you might or are doing a better job than they can. I have worked with women before but very few, and i have to say the first one i worked with was a dissapointment due to the fact that i think she got her job by complaining that she didnt get treated fairly because she was a "chick" and quite frankly everyone hated her becase she had the whao is me additude and everyone was supposed to feel sorry for her and take care of her. On the other hand there was another i worked with that just rocked and was a welcome site to see at any show because you knew she would get the job done and do it well. On the other hand I think everyone gets a little...ok a lot of shit their first time out, if you can hang then you in and respected, if not your out crying, male or female. Keep up the good work and take care.

[emma emma.a@ihug.co.nz]

i had no idea of the sexism involved! i only thought about this career a few days ago when i was looking on a career advice site. but then it doesn't help that i live in a very small, fairly isolated country called new zealand.( and no. it's not part of australia.)
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i was thinking of going to do a diploma in audio engineering at SAE Institute in Auckland next year. and now that i've read your article, it's just made me even more determined. but there is one thing i haven't been able to find anywhere: what do audio engineers get paid?!

[Dan Malone DAN@CLEARCUTACOUSTIC.COM]

Amy, small note, truth be known women have the ability the hear better then men. You already have an advantage over me.

[Todd K. tower888@hotmail.com]

Amy,
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<br>
Have you considered moving into another aspect of audio, besides live, corporate gigs?
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Being male, I haven't had to deal with the sexism, but I have had to deal with the inherant B.S. that comes with almost any live gig. I too have been struggling with the thought that what I do is very trasitory... it lasts the length of the performance, then vanishes.
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Just to give you some other possibilities you may not have considered....
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Theatre is a less-sexist gig, and can pay well. There is ALWAYS a shortage of good Sound Engineers, both at regional theatres, and on theatrical tours. A good free source of these jobs is Playbill.com. A better source (but you have to pay) is ArtSEARCH. Of course there are many other theatre job sites you can find by using search engines.
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Another area you may want to research is doing audio for a community college or university. Most of them don't require higher education, as long as you have skills. I recently moved into a staff Sound Designer/Engineer position at a small university. I receive the best pay rate I've ever made (year round!), full benefits, most weekends off(!!!), and paid vacation! Also, there are strictly enforced rules against discrimination! Again, use a search engine to find these jobs. A good site is the "Chronical of Higher Education".
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Best of luck to you. If you truly love audio as much as you say you do, then don't give up! Maybe just re-adjust your career direction (without leaving the field).
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Peace!
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TODD

[stevo from oz]

I cant believe that that there is so much vomit written about this topic. I think you all should be thankful to have a job unless you are busy mixing the next red hot chilli peppers album!!

[Amy]

Wow. I totally had forgotten that I wrote this until I stumbled upon it after doing an internet search for something else! I'm amazed at the responses. It's quite a while down the road from what I wrote in my rant about the live sound business, and I have to say that with time and dedication to my craft, my opinion has changed to quite a degree. Although, I still believe a lot of my rant holds merit. We all have our low moments, and boy did it feel good to vent mine when I wrote that little diatribe!
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<br />
As I've worked my way up the industry totem pool, I have noticed less and less sexism and discrimination on the job. At least it's not as blatent anymore. I can vividly remember what I was going through when I posted this. I had really gotten screwed over by some folks who had me seeing red. Since then, I've moved on to much bigger and better things. I've also taken myself out of the circle of people who surrounded me at that time. I guess being a sound engineer is like being a starving artist at times, and just as addictive. When you have passion for the craft of audio, there's really no walking away from it. And that can be frustrating at times. I do however think that corporate gigs really suck. It's kind of hard to justify your efforts when your mixing a pharmaceutical and investment banking seminars. I've learned to take the good with the bad by doing gigs that make me happy. Sometimes you just have to look for a day job to keep your cool until the next big gig rolls around. Gotta do whatcha gotta do.
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<br />
Anyway, thank you for your replies. I really didn't expect any when I wrote that. Sorry I didn't get to this until now, but better late than never right? I'm just happy I'm no longer in the place I was back then. I no longer take things so personally. A jerk is a jerk. And I do my best to stay away from those. No matter what you do or where you are, it's all about surrounding yourself with good people. If you can do taht... it's not so bad afterall.
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<br />
Thanks
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<br />
Amy

[Betty]

Hey Amy - Your story was just what I was looking for! I've been doing sound for film/tv/live venues for about 10 years now. I'm good at what I do and I think that the challenge of working in a male dominated field has forced me to work harder, perservere, study, and become better at what I do. Ultimately, there have been a few excellent jobs that I have been chosen for, not despite my gender but because people have noticed that I do a really good job. That said, I work for a corporation now and am surrounded by men. Given a chance, they will appropriate any technical aspects of my job because they 'assume' that they must know more because they are guys and 'guys are sound engineers' not 'chicks'. 'Chicks' are better off as poster girls stuck to the bulletin board or that they should stick to administration. This is terribly frustrating. But, I would like to add, its not only guys that are sexist. Women are sexist too, against women. <br />
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It is harder for women to be recognized or be inherently respected in a technical field, especially in entertainment. The upside is that women are forced to work harder, smarter, stronger and better. So, my advice to all those guys hiring out there - seriously consider hiring women because they are less likely to cut corners or waste time and money. They take their job seriously and most likely they are ambitious so they will go the extra mile to prove themselves. <br />
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As for the guys out there in the profession who feel that women are 2nd rate. Most of you are slobs and you better watch what you say and how you act because there are more intelligent people there who are watching you. Just because you are a guy doesn't mean that you don't have to watch your reputation.<br />
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Bottom line, YOU GO GIRLS!! Stay cool, don't get demoralized and if you are frustrated, take a walk around the block. Don't get caught up in the politics of the trade and keep on doing a good job.<br />
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Peace,<br />
Betty.

[Baz dalybaz@yahoo.com.au]

Hi all,<br />
I'm a 40yo soundy and sometimes muso (12 string) and I have been in the entertainment industry for just over half my life.<br />
I have also been a soundy of some sort since primary school,local kiddy discos and mixing bands when I was in scouts, 6 years in community radio, 9 years in national radio and am now coming up to my sixth year as owner/operator of a P.A. rig. <br />
This industry in my experience is one run on greed to support the greedy.<br />
How much better off would the publican be if he didn't have to pay the band or the soundy?<br />
We seem to be more of a hinderance to the people we work for rather than acknowledging us as their bread and butter suppliers.<br />
Geeze I'm becoming a stroppy lunatic in my old age.

[Baz dalybaz@yahoo.com.au]

Hi all,<br />
I'm a 40yo soundy and sometimes muso (12 string) and I have been in the entertainment industry for just over half my life.<br />
I have also been a soundy of some sort since primary school,local kiddy discos and mixing bands when I was in scouts, 6 years in community radio, 9 years in national radio and am now coming up to my sixth year as owner/operator of a P.A. rig. <br />
This industry in my experience is one run on greed to support the greedy.<br />
How much better off would the publican be if he didn't have to pay the band or the soundy?<br />
We seem to be more of a hinderance to the people we work for rather than acknowledging us as their bread and butter suppliers.<br />
Geeze I'm becoming a stroppy lunatic in my old age.

[UnsignedVocals UnsignedVocals@aol.com]

I'm 18 and a student in upper 6th form. I'm from the u.k and here underground garage is lively, I'm an upcoming artist and trust me have i seen a few things. My job - I compose lyrics and sing, and eventually i want 2 do sound engineering 2 improve my skills and talent. <br />
<br />
One of the subjects i'm currently under taking is Music 'As level' which eventually will become an 'A level'. I'm also learning how to play the piano. This will get me into university so i can study engineering. <br />
<br />
I have two producers both male and through my yr1/2 singing career, ive have had TO deal with female bashin. <br />
<br />
Ive seen how m.c's/D.js and male singers veiw women through their lyrics, Ive had guys asume i just sing FULLSTOP. Theirs nothing wrong with THIS AMAZING TALENT but i beleive it's important to acquire new skills constantly. <br />
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IN THIS INDUSTRY Ive COME TO DISCOVER {THE MUSICAL LYRICS} create a lifestyle for young teens. SERIOUSLY I CAN PROVE IT, I SEE IT IN CLUBS, IN SCHOOLS, ON THE STREETS E.C.T........ I FOR ONE LOVE MALE BASHING SONGS. <br />
SIMPLE REASON 'TASTE OF THEIR OWN MEDICINE'. <br />
<br />
WHEN I HERE RAPPERS TALKING ABOUT GIRLS WITH BIG TITS AND ASS AND HOW WE AINT GOOD FOR NOTHING BUT SUCKING DICK,<br />
I'M THE TYPE OF GIRL WHO REPONDES BY LOOKING FOR FEMALES WHO COUNTER RESPOND, eg DESTINY'S CHILD INDEPENDANT WOMEN. NO SCRUBBS, LICK MY NECK MY BACK E.T.C..........<br />
<br />
THROUGH MY MUSIC I TRY EXPRESS ANGER NOT HATE, DON'T GET ME WRONG I LOVE MALES, LADIES U FEELING ME?????? <br />
WHAT I MEAN IS MY MUSIC EXPLORES DIFFRERNT VEIWS ABOUT LIFE THROUGH MY EYES AS A FEMALE, AND EXPEIRIENCES IVE BEEN THROUGH. IM ASLSO VERY OPEN TO OTHER PEOPLE'S OPINIONS AND EXPIERIENCES.<br />
<br />
IN 30 YRS I DON'T NO WERE I'LL BE, BUT IN 3 YRS I HOPE TO BE A HUGESUCESS IN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY, AND HOPEFULY A LEGEND.<br />
<br />
TO SUM THIS UP LADIES KEEP ON WORKING FOR EQUALITY, TIMES ARE CHANGING AND THE PROGRESS IS CLEAR, LET'S COUNTINE THE BATTLE TILL WE GET A {CHECKMATE}.

[Rich2sides]

Nice one 4 makin it in the industry i hope 2 make it too not as a sound engineer but its interesting to learn bout everyone behind the music i'm in a semi professional band in England we're guna play L.A nxt year look out 4 us we're called 2Sides keep up the good work and congrats the music business is tuff.

[Erwin Panaginip@msn.com]

HI.I'm Erwin I've been a sound engineer for 5 years.I live in the Philippines.I've probably done it all.It started out being a hobby,really.Belive it or not When I was starting I didn't even know where the input nor the outputs should go.I didn't even know what an amplifier does.Pathetic wasn't it? I'm a self taught,trial and error guy.Botched up a few small events before I learned to handle live gigs may it be multiple lavaliers or body pounding live mixing for our local bands.I'm surprised to hear that you don't get the respect that is due you.I always assumed that if u went to school to be a sound engineer,regardless of gender,Clair Bros will be knockin at ur door! Don't despair bec i think I had it tougher than you.Here in my country they don't even offer a sound engineering course!I have a friend who went to the U.S. to study for it.Of course a lot of it is all theory and stuff.No pun intended to you of course.I have a lot of respect for people like you who studied for it but nothing beats the field in my opinion.I learned it the HARD WAY.No amount of magazine ever prepared me on what I faced.During my "learning" phase I recieved all the insults I could ever hear in a life time.Hey,who could blame them? Afterall I'm the guy they're expecting to handle the FOH and the backline monitors.I had countless encounters with several drummers bec I didn't know that most of em'preffer to hear the kick and the base guitar on their monitors.What's worse I didn't have the right equipment to produce the sound to start with.I must have burned several speakers with my inexperience.BLAG,BLAG,BLAG...that's how the kick sounded before I learned to properly tone the skin and tweak the x'over on the mixer.Still makes me sweat looking back at it.Here's another mistake that i did,I never used to bother and look at the various inputs going in the mixer NO matter how hard I tried,the client who has a musical ear for the right mix would demand from me an increase on certain instruments but problem was,even if i wanted to make him happy the volume faders were already maxed up.Jeez.How many ears suffered from the brain numbing feedbacks my EQ settings victimized I dare not recall.Eventually,God took pity upon me then gave me wisdom.Ahh...so,I can optimize my Mid-Highs if I send my subs to a post fader.Wow! what a difference it makes if you maintain ur signals at 0db.Oh,...u mean the lead,the rhythm and bass guitar produces different sounds? Shit,man I can go on and on. You see,before all that I spun records.MK2's and a Numark 1975 were the hardware of choice for Dj's.Top of the line during those times.A friend of mine whom I was in Business with at the "mobile" scene got carried away and started booking parties that included a P.A. system that's suppose to handle 10 microphones.What was he thinking? What we had was a dj mixer.As expected,disaster stuck and the rest as they say,is history.However,despite all of that I would never dream of giving up what had happened.The way I see it I had to learn those things to reach the position where I'm at.Being a Dj is fun but I feel more accomplishment in being a sound engineer.God,do I even deserve that title?I wonder...You know you did well when a producer gives u a call asking for another booking.A sale afterall is not the 1st but the 2nd.I have a lot of happy moments in this industry and part of those were the things I did wrong!now I can laugh about it.Of course I have to agree with you that its a job that doesn't pay much.Specially here in a 3rd world country such as mine.But You'd be surprised how immense and crazy our love for music andentertainment is.It's a passion few would understand.Even if we're not in the spotlight we hold the success of a star or event in our hands. I currently own a small business.I'm into garments but Frankly,the only reason why I'm doing that is bec I need to make ends meet. But if I were filthy rich I'd make a Clair bro's type of an operation here in Asia!Honestly,I haven't touched a console in a while but my skills are well tuned and intact.It's like driving a car,once you learn it becomes a part of you.Agree? Everything's 'bout the same here as in that part of the world. Same complaints,the physical demand,the long hours.You go in first you come out last.That's the way it will always be.Heck of a life but hey,It still beats sitting on a cubicle for 8 long hours staring at a computer.For me,my job is Freedom!Downside is,if u have a greedy boss who bites more than he can chew,it can be Hell on earth.We'll,If you love your work then it wouldn't be working would it? Good luck.

[Squarewave freekyhippi@hotmail.com]

It's refreshing to find that I am not the only girl in audio! As funny as that sounds, there just aren't that many. I would really enjoy a website or chat where girls in the industry can chat or exchange tips. I went to school for audio engineering, and dropped out. Getting a job was extremely difficult, and keeping one was nearly impossible at first. I have been at a sound company for 3 years now. I have watched men waltz into the company, get trained on anything they have shown interest in, and go out on the road while I remain in wait. I have heard about as many comments and cliches as you could imagine. "While you're down there.." is a popular one. Also big in popularity is being accused of being gay "because all soundgirls are gay or at least bi". Then there are the sexual advances that pretty much come with breathing. I've even been offered money for sex from my superiors! This business had not made me bitter, though. I feel it has made me tough. I can handle about anyone now. Arrogant bastards, sexist pigs, bring it on. I just wanted to say that if you are a girl wanting to go into the industry there are qualities you MUST have or you will never make it. First, persistense. You have to go after what you want. My first job they said, "we aren't interested at this time" I said, "That's ok, I'll just keep calling you every week until you give me a job". Within 2 days they called and I had it. They will bullshit you until they realize you're not going to go away. <br />
Also you must be willing to get dirty, break nails, get injured, and work very long hours. I spent many a night on city streets under a stage unclamping, running cable, etc.<br />
The most important quality is having the right attitude. No one will put up with whining or bad attitudes. And i'm talking when it's 4am and you've been working for 16 hours. <br />
All in all I feel pretty good about everything I have accomplished. I will be on tour in a few months, and that is the whole reason I went to school in the first place. It only took me 3 years to get there! <br />
Oh yeah, one omre tip. NEVER, EVER let them see you cry!

[dylan dylan@risksound.com.au]

Great to hear that you enjoy what you do, as with everything if your having a good time and others try n bring that down...F&*K em!<br />
<br />
anyway i'm all for females as equal engineers but i'm not sure about pinball????? thats a different caper there

[Peter Peterug13@hotmail.com]

HI Amy,<br />
<br />
I have been in audio since high school....about 15 years. It truely is a male dominated field. Having done both corporate and music I have worked with several female engineers, lighting techs, stage managers and roadies. I would rather have a team of females!! In general I find they are more creative, more concientious, take more pride in thier work and have a LOT less ego than most guys. DONT QUIT. Stay with it.

[gerald a,k,a, "big daddy gerald"]

i hope things have changed for you over the past couple of years since this was first posted. i am a dj and kj....yup in the arm pit of the industry , but it pays the bills.....once in a while lol.ive always wanted to persue legitamacy in my work by getting a degree in sound. alot of people dont understand the work that goes into creating "good" sound in various environments. with karaoke its quite a chore sometimes to make every one sound good .....well at least not bad. for you to continue to persue your career after the treatment youve endured is a great example of the pull that music has on some people...i lied to get my first gig hosting karaoke...never even seen a mixer before much less ran one.....what a party that was. 6 years later im still plugging away. gender is not an issue when it comes to a persons ability to create an enjoyable auditory experiance......after all it doesnt matter how good the band is if the sound sucks. you rock

[Frances flyngcoln@hotmail.com]

I think it may have been divine intervention of some sort when I literally stumbled across your story, Amy. I am about to quit a four year teaching degree to move interstate and begin an audio engineering degree at SAE Melbourne, Australia. WOW, I had no idea that the industry was so sexist, I would have thought people were over all that by now.<br />
However, I thank you for the eye opener, I am now going into the industry with my eyes wide wide open and a quick tongue (and punch). I must admit, I felt a little turned off by this revelation but now feel determination starting to well up!<br />
Thanks again!

[Susan Flanigan flanigan2@aol.com]

Just wanted to say that I know exactly how you feel concerning this male dominated business. I have been a sound engineer for the past four years and it is really hard to get taken seriously in this business as a woman. <br />
<br />
Generally, if you are even remotely attractive, it is even worse. My best sexism story is courtesly of the Union Guys. Somehow I am "aggressive" because I dropped down some mic's from a loft. I probably should have smiled at them and sweetly asked them to do it.......<br />

[380voltz]

Elisa rayna_71@hotmail.com wrote:
>I totally agree with you. I'm 17 and I'm looking towards attending a
>recording program next year. Every guy I know has told me to forget
>about it because I won't get work. First of all I'm probably one of
>the best musicians out of my guy friends and I have taken jobs before
>and was put down because I'm a girl. I think that's complete and
>utter bullshit. In order to survive in this industry you have to be
>tough and realize that your opinion doesn't really matter. Interning
>at a couple studio's I did get the sexist remarks like "sweetie" but
>I learned to deal with it. This is something I love and probably a
>lot of other girls love too. I just think this is something you have
>to stick with. Also I know for a fact that anything a guy can do I
>can do a hundred times better.
8) 8)


This is the kind of attidude that pisses guys off !! I am an Audio eng for 16 yrs and worked with a few girls. Only one turned out to be a bitch and a complete ninkumpoop when it comes to everything not only audio....because she was a bitch and a complete numbskull in audio ....because she really did think that Girls are better than guys!
The next time you need a hand to put yor midas on the table ask 6 of yor girlfriends to help you ;)
The truth is this......
1 Girls and guys are equally good in audio , lighting and rigging
2 Girls have exactly the same ears as guys if not girls would have a problem to mix for a male audience and vice versa.
3 Males actually love it when a good girl is aboard.
4 It is true that most girls need to read the following as Audio was a male world till 5 years ago and girls must respect the fact that Rupert Neve had testes :)


Tips on getting on with guys or any crew on the road.

1.Carry the same weight guys do otherwise u automatically create an imbalance in the crew...if you cant , make up for it in some other way.
2.Keep your mind open and learn from everyone
3 Don`t try to teach anyone except if they ask
4 Dont try and compete with guys or anyone for that matter.
5 The `nasty` guys are normally the wisest and the nicest when you get to know them ,
They are the ones you can learn audio from as they ve been there longer than u
They are nasty because they have been fucked in the ass too many times by the office guys and this job really burns you out.
6 Accept the fact that all Audio has been till now a male world and girls or newbies are just guests until they prove their worth which can last a whole tour.
7 Never think you know it all because nobody does and everyone fucks up occasionaly.
8 If someone calls u sweetie call him honeybunch as he`s probably testing your temper.
9 these tips apply to Guys as well as Dolls
10 Keep a sense Humor , Enjoy your work and good luck to you Amy you sound like you r really into it !!

AstalaPasta

380Voltz

[aqua]

hi all,

ive just had a good laugh at some of the rantings of u guys...
makes me remember the times when ive struggled against the "boys club" thing too.

through out my studies in the audio field, i went to a college here in WA which is meant to be the finest performing arts school, launching actors / musicians careers and the like...

the sound department always took in 10 new students every year and lucky me got picked...this was my first experience in dealing with the guy thing... and u know what? they dont even know they do it...some of them in the audio industry are such meatheads (not all but some) that they dont even realise what jerks they are being...which in my case made for not an easy learning experience and a confidence crusher as well and i ended up leaving the course...(after the other girl took it to the head of the academy for descrimination, which by the way i dont think anything was done about)

comments in class consisted of social commentry about some of the girls there like "well shes putting on weight...if her mother is a pear then you'll end up with a pear"...

"shes going out with him? well i spose hes got a face you could sit on" etc
well u get the idea and after 2 yrs of this id had it...

these kinds of guys are IDIOTS girls and they wonder why they cant get a girl friend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

now im working for a company where im responsible for the running of a studio doing voice overs and editing as well as other audio jobs whether they be corporate gigs/concerts whatever as well as working for myself doing some editing for $55 bucks an hour... its an ideal position im in as i dont have to put up with the shits guys are majority of the time...

so to all u girls out there with the passion for audio DO NOT let the guys get in your way...if u persist long enuf and work at it you will get to where u want to go...

there are plenty of ways to get there!!! just be strong about know what you want...

good luck to all starting out whether your intending to study or heading into the work force...

cheers

aqua

[Unregistered]

Sorry, I'm a man in the bussiness but I want send you some support words from spain.

Please girls don't let this business
Is good for the variety and the diference
The girls d'ont make this job better or worse, make this job like us and you have the same right to be insulted or praise.

There is a lot of road to be walked and we need you to make this job a decent and modern way of life


thanks for your work

jaume@ground-av.com

And fuck the sexist
Hit him witha SM58 (d-112 better)

[Unregistered]

I am a female interested in going to recording engineering school. I was wondering what is a reasonble price, and what are some good schools in the LA area. Anybody feel free to put in on this one. Thanks!!

Angie

angelacwilliams@hotmail.com

[Unregistered]

sorry to hear of your plight.
perhaps I can offer some relief. Hopefully you're willing to offer me some. I'm looking for someone with enough knowledge who can run our sound board at Clancy's Crab Broiler in Glendale. It's a small room, small 12 channel mixer. I do need to purchase a better mixer with more capacity but I'm learning as I go with nobody to teach me. I'm not necessarily interested in becoming a pro, I direct our Jazz program and our bookings reflect some local acts, but primarly national and some international talent. We are really beginning to bulid a solid reputation and I would like to hire an individual with extensive experience and knowledge who can help us present our performers as well as possible. Some of these acts are huge names who are used to top notch venues with all the appropriate equipment and all. I need to be that, and can't do it without having a sound tech.
Let me know if anyone in L.A. can help.

mangandi25@sbcglobal.net

[parker]

Hello
I am sooo pleased I found this site, I thought I was going crazy and being over sensitive about the way I was being treated for being a female sound engineer. yesterday I went to a club in Brighton where a friend of mine had organised work for me, the in-house engineer had not been told, inbetween looking at my chest and being condesending i felt like he was talking to me like I had woke up that morning and decided I wanted to do 'something' with sound. NO I have wanted to do this since I was about 12 and have been studying sound production for SIX years. Im fed up with being treated like im stupid, i have long blonde hair and a chest, so this MUST mean I dont have a clue what im talking about. All I want to do is sound engineer, why should'nt I, I know I am as capable as any man. Its sooo frustrating, my boyfriend is sweet and says I should just be strong and prove them all wrong, but I have done that for six years Im in my final three months of study and I sick and tired of having to prove myself!!!
I am writing my dissertation on women in the music industry and whether we will ever be fully excepted, please get in touch if you think you can be of any help.

THANK YOU FOR READING THIS AND TAKING TIME OUT, WRITING THIS HAS HELPED ME.

[Unregistered]

It's been interesting reading this thread. I am a girl in audio, but in a different area than all of you. I just finished a four year liberal arts degree in sound and will be starting my internship within the next few months.

Most of the live audio that I have done was at a church gig in a bad acoustical setting. The first time I was there, I had one year of studio-recording school and some basic live sound with a stable system at my church. I went in there the first day without a clue and expecting to be the assistant. It didn't happen. For the whole week I was in charge of the board and had to learn as I went and make my mistakes, sometimes on preachers, who are pickier about what they hear than bands, let me tell you. The last night, they brought in a guy who was known around the area for doing sound without telling me, and he just took over and changed a bunch of stuff. By that time, I was more insulted that they just did that without telling me they had a problem, then that they brought a guy in. It all worked out alright, though, because by the end of the night, I had people telling me that I did a better job than he had. It was cool because I felt that I had earnedd the praise, not just gotten it because I was a girl. I went back the second year, and not one time did they bring in someone to take my place.

At school, I did not have a single problem with sexism. The only thing I noticed is that I was the only girl out of 5 who really made it past the first year. That was more because of the effort involved than it was about discrimination. The guys always treated me with respect and listened to what I had to say. They were very good about treating me as an equal talent-wise. Maybe because I went in there with a desire and a hunger to learn.

I have since decided that a job in the field of sound is not for me. I enjoy the performance side a little more, I think, if I stay in the music field. But, the things I have learned both in the classroom and at the board will stick with me. The problem-soving-in-three-seconds and stay-cool-when-all-hell-breaks-loose abilities required for running live sound are good lessons that stick with you in life. Also, they are good lessons for every studio engineer to learn because they make you think outside the box. Good luck to all of you in the field. You make music audible for the rest of us. We couldn't do it without you. I think every musician should have a stint in sound so they know what is really going on to make them sound good, 'cause it doesn't just happen by magic.

[Unregistered]

Thanks for your email. I am 37 and have been doing sound for about 17 yrs. I don't reply or answer any email stuff I read, but you wrote an uplifting piece. I really enjoyed the thoughts and your later email, it was very good. I have learned to do two things in this business. Learn gain structure, and most of all, have fun. I have gone to audio school and have loaded trucks forever. I would say God has given me everything I have wanted and a great wife and two great little girls. On top of that, he gave us a home. Make your day count, have fun.
Goldineers@hotmail.com 07/31/04

[Unregistered]

Hi


Engineers ! call or email me please. I have a very interesting sound gig in LA. Must be able to program a VoiceLive, vocal unit (harmonizer/pitch corrector)

310 600-0049
seandogg@aol.com

[Unregistered]

All I can say:

Just come over to Europe... you

might like it ;-)

A.B. (audio engineer)

[Unregistered]

I stumbled onto this site as I had been reading in the I hate Nursing section earlier. My daughter graduated from Full Sail Audio Engineering program in Orlando, Fl.
She just recently got a job at a well known and supposedly respected studio in the L.A. area.
While she has been there less than 3 months, and is still full of hopeful enthusiasm, after reading some of these comments, it appears, as I had feared, that she has a difficult road ahead. I think that the sexist attitude is already obvious. The studios like to keep young attractive women doing the receptionist and office work. I am not sure what it will take for her to get the opportunities to assist in the technical aspects of the job for which she went to school for. The pay is not enough to survive on, and the hours are irregular. I want her to have a sense of accomplishment, but I know it must be a struggle. I have forwarded this site to her, and perhaps she may be interested in communicating with some of the other female audio engineers. I think it helps to talk to others who share similar experiences.

[Michelle]

Amazing!!!! I, alike many of the people posting, am a 20 yr old female desiring to be in the sound engineering field. I am about to graduate with a Finance degree soon, and recently I have added another major (Music Technology) to my belt. Getting closer and closer to graduation, I know that I won't be happy doing anything in Finance. **Note: I chose Finance b/c I wanted a degree that would give me a job with a lot of money** It is the biggest mistake I made...

My heart has always been with music and everything about it. And now I'm going to go forward and pursue what I should have from the beginning. I'm more than ready to learn and bust my a$$ to make it happen in this field. If there's anyone that can give me some advice, I'd really appreciate it.

mascardom@yahoo.com

[True Blue Falco]

Hello there. Please, call me TBF. I was wondering, Amy, I'm interested in audio engineering and I was wondering what exactly what they do. I'm currently looking for a job and I really need one. One of my goals were to be a video game designer, but that doesn't look like it's happening. So since this seems to be the only idea left, perhaps you can hand me a few tips? e-mail at Night_Owl_EX85@yahoo.com , if you could. Thanks.

[Unregistered]

Hi there, Does anyone know something about these very popular audio engineering schools SAE? Is it the money worse? Any other school to recomend? olar7@hotmail.com
Thanks, Sven Olar (Musician)

[Unregistered]

I can only tell you about a very small part of the music industry and the sexism I have encountered. I am 42 and with a local band that has been together for 14 years. I started as a fan, became a roadie and got the light girl job by default. I'm now learning the sound tech job and I love it. Its something that I've always wanted to do--without even realizing it--I would see local bands and actually be embarrassed by their sound. I don't get paid much the 6 of us split anywhere between 5 and 600 USD. Reading this thread is amusing. I really liked the part about not caring who slept with who! Ain't that the truth! My success with this band is due in part to the ex-drummer who is female as well--she sort of "paved" the way for me--in other words the guys in the band were used to having a smart female around and so they weren't surprised by my intelligence either even though I have big boobs! The rest of my success if you want to call it that is due to my attitude. Don't cause trouble or don't talk about anyone. No bullsh**! I am always in a good mood--not that things don't go wrong--but I love what I do--and I'm a naturally happy person. The band appreciates that. Do they make sexist remarks--of course they do and I make them right back. A good bawdy sense of humor is a necessity I think when you are working with musicians (who by the way are the best people on the planet). I try to help everyone and pull my own weight. I also have fun. I am also good with our fan base, remember everyone's name. Our ex-drummer who sings and plays guitar now has been in the "business" longer and has seen a lot of discrimination but you just learn to say f**k it!

[Unregistered]

It isn't all about male/female.

You sound like someone with aspirations and dreams and expecting nice things to happen along the way, recognizing your ability as an Audio Engineer.

Live work is too often a lot of trash. It is EGO stuff and the bantering about that unfortunately in your case, MALES have usually had practice at for years.

Welcome to the real world.

It has its' good moments, and it has the really bad ones.

[Unregistered]

Hi, I'm a guy, who is not sexist. I also want to take part in the field of "Audio Engineer", I believe it's tougher when you are a Canadian, because all the big gigs are in the US. I just want to say I'm proud of you; also if you have any tips or suggestions, for me, can you please send them to.

kazin32@hotmail.com

I thank you,

PS. Keep up the good work.

[georgie]

and another thing:
it is up to us to set a new standard and to be role models for future women trying to get into sound work.
Don't accept sexism, every time you go out and do work in music, it shows the men out there who think its a mans job that they are wrong.

The amazed look on some men's faces when you pull of a really good gig or recording session is absolutely priceless. I think I've changed quite a few men's opinions on women sound engineers already by just getting on with the job and doing it bloody well!

[Unregistered]

Hey. Im an audio engineer out of DC/ Atlanta and I know what you are talking about. Not personally, as I am male but a good friend of mine and fellow engineer who is female experienced such discrimination. We went to school together in DC so I know shes good. She was subbing for me at my regular saturday night gig the other night and faced the most horrible discrimination and blame for a mix that was perfectly acceptable for the horrible acoustics that an engineer must circumnavigate in that room. I hope this field moves past the 1950's soon.

[bertiebee]

Wow Amy ur amazing! truly an inspiring story thanks for keeping me motivated I'm studying Diploma of Sound Engineering and I've been studying for the past 3 years and I plan to do my degree which would be completed after another 3 years. I know it's hard work but I love it. It's quite unfortunate that guys are taking over everything that's fun that us girls would love to do. Why don't they have a crack at doing all the house work 24/7 for a month and see how us women feel when our upmost desires are knocked back cos some guy gets too discriminating. But unfortunetely I can't choose my gender. One day the boys will have to learn a lesson and that is we are all equal human beings and until u guys learn that, very soon life is going to get a whole lot harder.

[Unregistered]

Amy,

Hang in there. Any chance you can learn Pro Tools and move into studio work? Or is live music where you want to be? There are a handful of female sound engineers, including myself who have endured exactly what you so articulately expressed.

No other way to say it - than it just plain sucks. Until the women in this world start raising their sons to think of women as equals - things won't change...

Oh the stories I could tell you.

Don't give up. Make us proud!!

Warm regards,

Gina Fant-Saez

[luigi42]

hey everybody, my name's Adam. great story by the way, its always cool to hear how someone's working through an industry thats predominately the opposite sex. but i have a question for anyone already in the industry; im 19, and im looking at schools where i can study to be a audio/sound engineer. i've been searching online and other places as well, but i'd like to get some input from people in the field. i eventually want to end up doing studio work. i want to go to a school that i can walk away from with some real experience, but a good level of technical knowledge as well. not to mention a place with some kind of accredidation, or at least a good name in the industry. if anybody who has already been in my place has a name of somewhere to start, or even just something u've heard, feel free to let me know. i would GREATLY appreciate any information from anyone, music and sound is something im highly passionate about and to be able to make a career out of it would be incredible. so if anyone who would have some input could take five minutes to send me an email, it would mean the world to me. thanx to anyone who can respond. im not asking for huge amounts of info from diff. schools or anything, just if anyone knows the name of a school, that would be great. (please send any info. to Luigi4202@hotmail.com) thanx once again.
-Adam-